support this. one thing that has to get mentioned is that gadhafi, a couple of weeks ago, was poised to go into benghazi and slaughter 5,000, 10,000, 20,000 people. we don't know. he said he was going to do that. because of our intervention, he wasn't able to do that. that has to be the baseline understanding of the conversation, at this moment, i think. gadhafi's job is not to make it easy for us. he presented a set of difficult options. but so far, this has actually worked. >> george, you heard secretary gates talk about how this was not a vital interest, libya. do you think he's trying to distance himself from this? the reports were that he recommended against this. >> i'm sure he recommended against this. he more than anyone else, and the admiral knows this, how stressed our military is. i'm sure he's against it because he's a realist in foreign policy school. no one can say that libya is as important to us as yemen or bahrain, for example. this creates problems because they have their own difficulties with their people.